Where have all the flowers gone?

Lt. Col. Kauzlarich's remarks remind me of Kryten from Red Dwarf series 3 episode 6.

Lister points out that this is 'Whacko Jacko' and that there is no such thing as Silicone Heaven. "But where do all the calculators go?" asks Kryten. "Surly you believe that god is in all things, aren't you a pantheist."

"Yeah," says Lister, "but I just don't think it applies to kitchen utensils, I'm not a frying pantheist!" he adds that calculators and other machines don't have an afterlife.

"But of course they do!" Objects Kryten, "…. It's common sense sir, if there wasn't an afterlife to look forward to, why on earth would machines spend the whole of their lives servicing humankind? Now that would be really dumb!" Lister decides to agree. He doesn't want to spoil Kryten's picture of going to heaven on his last day. He asks Kryten, just out of interest, if Silicone Heaven is the same place as human heaven. Kryten laughs, "there is no such thing as human heaven." He says, "Someone just made that up to prevent you from all going nuts!"

This whole circus over Tillman's atheism makes me incredibly angry. While this family is being disparaged for not being christian, the military is about to court-martial another thoughtful, dedicated young man (First. Lt. Ehren K. Watada) who in refusing to serve in Iraq, says he "owed his allegiance to a 'higher power' -- the Constitution -- based on the values the Army had taught him: 'loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity and personal courage.'" (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/23/us/23refuse.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)

But Mitch, strongly disagree with your generalization on atheists' stance toward death ("Guess that's true. Guess atheists do find death 'pretty tough'"). Says who? Got evidence for such a broad statement like that? Some of us at least don't see it that way...

I find it hard to believe anyone alive doesn't find death tough, even if they want a way out.
Death may be inviting but it seldom is easy.

The end of existence, just what is that? Miles to go before I sleep and I won't go gently into the night, etc. I'm with Mitch, I am an anecdotal piece of evidence.

I was taking issue with the implication, at least, in M's statement that atheists somehow find death 'tougher' than believers for some reason (because of its finality?), rather than suggesting that death was somehow 'easy.' Never said that. But it isn't particularly tougher b/c of not believing in god, afterlife, etc., is it?

Why then does it make people so fuzzy, warm and comfortable believing they will live with their loved ones forever after they die? Don't you think it is harder to believe that death is the end rather than some magic doorway? Perchance to dream? Wouldn't it be nice to live forever without pain or sorrow?

Now I think talking about what "atheists" believe is just as glossing as talking about what superstitious people believe. No one knows what anyone else believes. We seldom are even sure of what we believe ourselves.

Is death tough? We'll have to ask a dead guy--hmmm, they all seem so mum. Death is easy, dying is the hard part.

Those not busy being born are busy dying.
But it's allright, Ma, I'm only bleeding.

"Pat may not have been what you call a Christian. He was about the best person I ever knew."

Though she leaves out the "but" inbetween these sentences, I still think what she's saying is indicative of the status of having a Christian faith in the USA. If you are a Christian, you are by default a good person. If you're an atheist, you have the burden of proof to show that you can still be a good person despite your lack of faith in God.

It's so sad, and it's doubly sad that atheists give in to this kind of thinking, and "admit" that they may not be Christians, but they're still good people.

Pat Tillman believed in himslef and what he was doing. Lt. Col. Kauzlarich believes in whatever suits himself and whatever makes his actions seem OK with top brass or any other brass that will let him skate. His day of reckoning may soon come and I hope his god is mercy full whatever about the judge.

If someone's statement that they are christian means that they associate themselves with a set of values then everyone should judge them by the set of values that they have endorsed. If someone says they are an atheist, this gives others no basis for judgement. It is impossible to say what set of values a person with that stance may endorse, and as such others remain hostile to the unknown which is implicit in such a statement. Society is built upon commonalities, those who do not adhere to the norms of the society will be mistrusted, wrong and right, truth and fiction simply don't enter into the equation.

Are we certain that the Tillmans are atheists? Non-Christian and atheist aren't necessarily the same thing. I've known quite a few people who identify as "spiritual" and don't believe in "many of the fundamental aspects of organized religion" yet are decidely theist or at the very least nontheist rather than atheist (which despite the literal translation of the word generally refers to people who reject all supernatural claims not just deities, right?).